• Registered: 2015-02-24
  • Posts: 446

Topic: Thoughts on Visual versus Non-Visual/Scripted dev

Hello all MVD fans,


This topic is mainly for Dmitry but of course, you are all welcome if you want to participate smile


I understand that MVD is mostly a "visual" tool, aimed at people that want an easy way to create their own application with database. There are many examples of great apps that were made with MVD and that's really awesome to be able to create tools with little to no knowledge of coding.


From time to time, a very specific need arises and then, we ask for advises, modifications, evolutions and all of us who ask, we contribute to transform MVD the "visual" tool into something that is still visual, but also very code oriented.
And I have to admit I am not the last to ask for extra features.


Want an example ? Today, I finally managed to decode to jpeg a Base64 encoded image I got transferred through json via a website API that I query online with MVD. The only problem is that I could not save that image to file because we lack the LoadFromStream method for TBitmap. So I was about to write a post and ask Dmitry when....


... wait a second here ! MVD means "visual", and by asking again and again for new "non visual" features, we're loosing the very essence of MVD and furthermore, we are wasting Dmitry's time, aren't we ?


So my first question is : Dmitry, do you mind use asking for new non -visual features and do you still have time to progress on the MVD core itself ?


The second question is, and I'm sorry in advance because it is tricky : Dmitry, do you think that, when we reach a certain degree a knowledge in Delphi coding, it is time for us to move to another tool like Lazarus or even Embarcadero (that released a free version of it's environment) ? I've already been doing so many times but I keep coming back to MVD because it's a great tool and because the "little community" on this forum is kind of my second family.


I want my MVD 3.0 and I'll buy that license when it comes out no doubt about it ! But honestly Dmitry, I feel like we are wasting your time by constantly asking for upgrades and evolutions, and wasting ours when waiting for the features to be implemented.


Do not misunderstand me my friend (if you allow me to call you that), I love your tool since the day I discovered it, and I love that community you built here, as I love the quality and speed of your answers to us. But I also feel that you might need more time for your main goal which is making MVD evolve and wonder if we are asking too much and too often, diverting you from your goal.


What do you think ?


Cheers



Mathias

I'm a very good housekeeper !
Each time I get a divorce, I keep the house
Zaza Gabor
  • Registered: 2014-08-02
  • Posts: 913

Re: Thoughts on Visual versus Non-Visual/Scripted dev

Hello Mathmatou, Dmitry and MVD fans

I believe there are actually two types of MVD users:
- one who has no knowledge of programming and who sees this as an effective opportunity to implement an application that meets their (often simple) needs: to manage his discotheque or library, any kind of usual collection.
For this man, MVD is well suited in its current state (v 3.0) and if necessary, it can ask Dmitry to create a new function.
In any case, it was realized during the forum that Dmitry has the extreme kindness (and competence) to do it.

For these users, the visual aspect of MVD is a great comfort since behind the icon selected, is set up a whole process of code in relation.
Properties and procedures are already ready.

- the one who already mastered the Delphi language and for whom the limiites of MVD will soon be reached.
Then yes he will be able to pass to Lazarus or) RAD XE ... Then, he will be able to leave MVD since by using the first two,
It will dispose from the beginning of all the functions and procedures. This 'pro' will not be able to afford to wait for the new updates of MVD which Dmitry has the extreme patience to answer and this with kindness despite certain hard words of the applicants.

I take my case: former programmer for a large French telecom company, (Delphi, C ++, java, Peak).
I am currently retired, aged 65 years. Overloaded, I do not have time to get up to date with these high-performance applications.
And MVD now allows me to create applications with ease (essentially collections management).
To create more complex projects, I pass on Lazarus.
For example, I created a collective restaurant management application for my son with Lazarus because MVD lacked specific functions and I did not want to always disturb Dmitry so that he implements them in MVD (but I'm still waiting Impatiently a Treeview in MVD and I regularly seat Dmitry in this sense).

Dear Mathmathou, you take the example of JPG image decoding.
You certainly have a personal need. But will this interest other MVD users ?
I had asked Dmitry to implement the DrawCell function to redraw the canvas of the grid. He replied that he did not see the need to do so, saying that it would be too difficult to implement for other users. Is.

In fact, it would be necessary to know what is the expectation of the users of MVD.
What is their level of programming  ? What kind of projects do they develop or want to develop?
Do not they expect too much MVD? Remember the anger of IHMES for who it seems MVD was not powerful enough.
We can not ask Dmitry to systematically develop a code that will satisfy everyone!

I think the key question is: I have MVD but what do I want to do with it?
Simple projects (family, collections) or more complex, but which will run against the limits of MVD?

Personally with MVD, I made professional apps (management of birds for one association, management of butterflies for another), management of personal inventories, family health book ...
Since we do not ask for the Moon, MVD will suffice amply.
As soon as we target Mars, MVD will be a bit limited.

The debate is open and I would like to know the opinion of Dmitry on which I refuse to fire because he has given us a tool now extremely powerful and its availability to our questions is exemplary.

I thank you Mathmathou for having opened this debate and I expect to read more!

JB

  • Registered: 2015-02-24
  • Posts: 446

Re: Thoughts on Visual versus Non-Visual/Scripted dev

Hello Jean and Dmitry,


I hope you understood I ment no offense. Let me say it again, I love MVD and, believe it or not, there are things I can not do better with other software. An example ? The tablegrid system is just awesome : No data source or data biding to setup or worry about. Edit fields combined with search buttons are so easy to setup as well ! Doing the same with Lazarus or RAD Studio takes some work.


What I am concerned about is : how much can we ask Dmitry without disturbing him in his work and on the other side having to wait a long time for him to deliever.


Jean mentionned Ihmes anger the other day. I think there was just a misunderstanding in all this, doubled with a strange way of "ordering things" instead of asking (I want this,I want that ...). Clearly this case is not significant and just an isolated case of rage-quiting, and I see no one else on this forum behaving this way.


My concern is really just "how much can we ask and expect from Dmitry". Until now, I've always found ways around what Dmitry say he could not do and, even if not always optimal, it worked. I love coding with MVD, or I would not have spent time figuring out how to implement icons in menus and posting in the FAQ to let everyone known. Or, I would not (like you do Jean and Derek and many others) spend time on the forum answering questions with a smile because... I had the same at the begining. I really do enjoy every minute I spend on Dmitry's tool and... well... maybe I am just being impatient or too perfectionist, but I have so many ideas (not all useful for the majority, I have to admit that) and I ran in some many dead-ends that sometimes, it's a bit frustrating. And' the idea to have to switch to another dev tool buggs me because : I don't want to !! It's so confortable here ! Drag a component, had a few lines of code to make sure the user does not imput a duplicate, prepare a report in a few clicks... done ! Why in hell would I want to leave ?


Well, if I want more because... MVD made me want more. But it's hard to admit that, maybe, I reached the limits of what it can do and I can not resolved myself to pass onto something else... that a real case of conscience smile


Anyway, I hope I made clear there was no grief in my previous post, merely questions and hope and expectations smile


Wish you alla a good day


Mathias

I'm a very good housekeeper !
Each time I get a divorce, I keep the house
Zaza Gabor
  • Registered: 2014-02-14
  • Posts: 10,294

Re: Thoughts on Visual versus Non-Visual/Scripted dev

mathmathou

So my first question is : Dmitry, do you mind use asking for new non -visual features and do you still have time to progress on the MVD core itself ?

No problem, just ask me, if I can and if it not requirement so much time I will implement it.


Dmitry, do you think that, when we reach a certain degree a knowledge in Delphi coding, it is time for us to move to another tool like Lazarus or even Embarcadero (that released a free version of it's environment) ?

Yes, we all need to move forward smile



But honestly Dmitry, I feel like we are wasting your time by constantly asking for upgrades and evolutions, and wasting ours when waiting for the features to be implemented.

No, In this way I getting ideas for the new features.

Dmitry.